Go BottomAnyone have experience with these cartridges
 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee 
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2003-11-26 69728
I have a serious stray and wild dog problem around my neck of the woods. Have tried SPCA, animal shelter, sheriff, and anyone who will listen. I get nothing but lip service. I had a large wild or I guess I should say abandoned and become wild dog (part pit bull and black Lab) that eventually became extremely aggressive to the point that is would show its teeth and growl if you approached it and my neighbor tried to shew him away from her dogs food and he did the same to her and challenged her. He had gotten is 3 fights with my dog and I was afraid one of my girls or my dog might be harmed so I called all my neighbors to be sure nobody owned the dog and contacted the sheriff one last time to come get it or I planned to shoot it. Everyone asked me to please shoot it as they were afraid of it. All I had was .223 FMJ for my Ruger Ranch Rifle. I was afraid of a riccochet with houses within 100 yards so I opted for my Mossberg 500 and some copper plated buffered OO buckshot magnum 12 guage shells. I had to make a couple of extra shoots to put the dog down fast after the first shot. I felt like Whale sh!t afterwards but it had to be done. I would prefer a one shot quick kill and I purchased some Winchester CXP1 45 grain jacketed hollow point .223 Remington cartridges today. They are rated at 3,600 fps. These cartridges seem to have the specs. I was looking for with respect to a quick, one shot kill and a bullet that will disintigrate on impact. Anyone have any experience with these or similar cartridges. They were just under $12 for 40 cartridges. All the rest of my weapons I feel are huge overkill for this use and would result in riccochet. I am also trying to be as discrete as possible so as not to upset the neighbors children. And guys, I would NEVER harm someone else's pet unless it was an immediate matter of life or limb without exhausting every other possibility. This dog was meaner than Kutter Brown but he was just trying to make a living like the rest of us. When it comes to my family, I just cannot allow a threat like that to continue. Any ideas as to another course of action would be appreciated as I HATE to shoot of hurt these animals. I tried pellet rifles, chasing them, thrown things at them and they keep coming back. I thought about trying to catch the dog and take him in like I did Koon Dog and 2 other dogs but this guy was mean......was not gonna let it happen.
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 | jkinney
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 21 maine 
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2003-11-26 69730
Good evening chief, I dont have any experience with those, but my 10 year old daughter has been carrying a 223 youth rifle in Maine this hunting season and she is shooting a winchester 223 64 GR. power point. Her rifle does not shoot them good, fact is the hole is oblong at 50yds. However the goup is 3" at that distance. I measured the twist on her rifle and it is 1 in 13 not good for heavy bullets. I must admit we had alot of fun with this rifle prior to hunting season with bullets in the 50 gr. range, as far as target practice go. ....
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 | F350Lawman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 411 Goshen, NY
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2003-11-26 69743
"Her rifle does not shoot them good, fact is the hole is oblong at 50yds"
I think those cartridges have a habit of tumbling and doing that. That's why they are no fun to get shot with :(
They are still pretty accurate anyway. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-11-26 69746
You need a 1 in 9 twist to stabilize those heavy .223 bullets.
Chief: you may have gone too far the other way. Those light fast hollow point are designed to blow up prairie dogs. I saw a very small deer (40 pounds) shot with a similar load and it blew up about an inch into the shoulder creating a nasty, painful, but not immediately lethal wound.
The buckshot is appropriate medicine, especially if you can get into a 15 yard range to the critter. Beyond that a 12 gauge slug is better and still safer in an urban setting than a .223
There is no nasty old dog alive that can take a Brenneke slug in the boiler room and live more than a few seconds.
There is something about drilling a 3/4 inch hole through a critter that makes it wanna just stop.
I've dropped vehicle injured moose in their tracks with those slugs. They work. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-26 69749
I see what you are saying Mark. I was just not too impressed with how the OO buckshot performed. I was expecting to take the dog down with one shot. I got within 15 yards and I hit him solid with the first shot but he still managed to run 30 yards and I hit him 2 more times on the run. I had to run up close to finish him.
With a Mini - 14, a scope, and explosive rounds I was thinking I could get much better shot placement. An explosive bullet like that inflicts or transfers so much of the shock energy of the bullet to the animal that it is usually dropped instantly. Or at least that has been my experience with big ole' ground hogs. I was afraid the full metal jacket bullets would just zip right through and riccochet. I have a 7mm Remington Magnum with 175 grain soft points but I figured that would be huge over kill and unneccessary risk of riccochet as well. Not to mention the crater it would leave in the ground. My 30.06 is as much or more so. I have yet to mount a scope on my 25.06 which would probably be the best of both worlds. I wanted the small fast hollow point bullet so it would not exit the body and minimize the risk of riccochet.
I am hoping this will be the last time I ever have to do this. I felt terrible after shooting that dog. Hope I NEVER have to do it again. Only thing is that this dog was living in an abandoned school bus and it looked like other dogs may have been living there with him. I sure hope not. ....
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| F350Lawman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 411 Goshen, NY
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2003-11-26 69750
Obviously range isn't an issue as you were "throwing things" at them...unless thta is ya' got a real good arm there, Chief;) With that in mind I was going to suggest the slugs as well. I guess the "discreet" part and not distrurbing the neihbors is out the window :)
I you want to insure zero ricochet potential you could get one of those defense or frangible slugs. They will break up if you miss but will surely take care of the dog if you don't miss. No overpenetration either.
Several manufacturers make them but some are law enforcemnt only, but I am sure one of your buddies might loan you a few :) I don't think they are technically illegal for you to posess just that the manufacturers only offer them toe LE. More of marketing hype than anything if you ask me. Winchester has the Ranger line marketed this way. Some of their Ranger items are the same as the "consumer" items"???? Go figure.
The one that looks interesting is a door breaching round made by PMC. It is also effective as a shor range defensive round and shoots a decent 2" group at 25 yards. It consists of a thin plastic slug filled with powdered metal travelling 1500+ FPS. It's even approved by the Navy :)
See link: ....
Link: PMC
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-26 69752
Scott are those bean bag rounds allowed to be sold to us civilians? I never thought of those! I could run up on the dog and knock the taste buds out of its mouth and scare the crap out of it but not kill it. The shock of the bean bag and the muzzle blast would be very effective. That might scare them away to some place else but then they will become someone else's problem or danger. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-11-27 69778
Chief, as I'm sure you're already aware dogs learn real fast, running up on him and balsting him with a non-lethal round may either provoke an attack, or teach him that humans are something he needs to defend himself from. You may make more problem than you solve.
We have to deal with stray nasty dogs all the time in the islands. In most places they are semi-domestic pets which for whatever reason have become feral. They are genrically called Potcakes, after the food of choice, the stuff that sticks to the bottom of the pot.
We learned a VERY effective way to deal with them. Any semi-moist food, hot dog works really well. Cut it in quarters, then cut one piece open and in insert the powdered contents of 5 or 6 over the counter sleeping pills. Yu feed the pooch two 'duds' then the live round, if he balks at the live round give him the last 'dud' otherwise just use it as a parting gift. In about 5 minutes they get quiet, after 20 minutes they are PERMANENTLY quiet. Nighty-night fido.
Absolutely humane and about as safe as it gets, besides if any 'little ones' are watching it is not at all traumatic for them to see the pooch getting his last supper.
Best of luck. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-11-27 69803
You are not going to believe this but now I have a stray cat problem. I think the problem may be that we live across the street and down the road from an animal clinic and people are dumping their unwanted pets there. They come around our house looking for food. This cat is the friendliest cat I have ever seen. He had no collar and I thing he was dumped. Just did not have the heart to shoot him but our dog seems to be doing a good job of running him off. Been nothing but cat fights day and night around here for the past 3 days, he is not getting along with our 2 Manx cats. ....
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| F350Lawman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 411 Goshen, NY
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2003-11-27 69807
Yes, there are non-lethal rounds you can buy. I have never used them or worked in a department that uses them.
What's going on over there, are you being overrun Chief? :) You gotta love all these people letting pets go for others to deal with :( Now there might be a use for non-lethal measures!
I understand what you're going through we have visitors but they don't stay. I have several cats who visit. The one cat we "adopted" stays in the barn, he is very territorial so the visitors don't stay for long. It works out.
As far as dogs they avoid my bulldog for some reason. Too ugly or smelly I suppose :) It must be something with my dog because the neighbors have dog and bear visits to there garbage regularly but I have no problems. The grabage is right next toit eh dog pen, amybe the don't wnat to go there????
Maybe you need to adopt a mean cat and an ugly, smelly dog..it works for me.
P.S. The coyote has not returned since I ran him off.
....
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